Expelled
So, yesterday evening I went to a small discussion/debate at my church. It was a little different than I was expecting. I was hoping there would be a lot of people there, with people debating in front so I wouldn't have to get involved. Unfortunately, when I got there I found out it was a small-group style. There were about 8 or 9 people there, 2 of whom I knew (from the Chrisitan grad group).
The topic of discussion was the recent movie "Expelled." Expelled was a movie not so much about the idea of intelligent design, but the "academic persecution" suffered by proponents of intelligent design. The movie is basically a string of interviews, interspersed with clips of WWII Nazi and concentration camp footage.
Jared, (God bless the guy, he's virtually unflappable) was the moderator, and sympathetic to the movie. Most of the group that were present were not members/attenders of the church, and highly unsympathetic to the goal of the movie. The guy who ended up being the most vocal came for the sole purpose of discrediting every interview in the movie. He was very worked up about it. A biology professor was also present. They sort of tag-teamed throughout the night, taking pot shots at the movie.
Actually, this is very interesting. In pop culture, the Christian fundamentalist, young earth creationist stereotype is a zealous, un-reasonable person. The scientist, however, is calm, reasoning, intellectual, and able to approach questions in an "objective" manner. However, in this particular instance the biology teacher could hardly keep a level voice, and the other fellow was making dangerously violent motions with his arms the whole night. He must have been exhausted by the time he left. Ironically, the fellow with the levelest head was Jared, who is also a young earth creationist.
I would like to say the discussion was interesting, but unfortunately, it was mostly a "loudest person has the floor" type situation, in this case being the prof and they other fellow (I'm not really sure what he does). The intellectual jousting that peppered the "discussion" was irritating because people refused to be consistent with what they were saying. I didn't get so far as proposing any idea all night, simply because I kept asking people to clarify what they were saying. I might post more on this later, I'm at the Holleman's house right now missing out on some discussion of sorts
The topic of discussion was the recent movie "Expelled." Expelled was a movie not so much about the idea of intelligent design, but the "academic persecution" suffered by proponents of intelligent design. The movie is basically a string of interviews, interspersed with clips of WWII Nazi and concentration camp footage.
Jared, (God bless the guy, he's virtually unflappable) was the moderator, and sympathetic to the movie. Most of the group that were present were not members/attenders of the church, and highly unsympathetic to the goal of the movie. The guy who ended up being the most vocal came for the sole purpose of discrediting every interview in the movie. He was very worked up about it. A biology professor was also present. They sort of tag-teamed throughout the night, taking pot shots at the movie.
Actually, this is very interesting. In pop culture, the Christian fundamentalist, young earth creationist stereotype is a zealous, un-reasonable person. The scientist, however, is calm, reasoning, intellectual, and able to approach questions in an "objective" manner. However, in this particular instance the biology teacher could hardly keep a level voice, and the other fellow was making dangerously violent motions with his arms the whole night. He must have been exhausted by the time he left. Ironically, the fellow with the levelest head was Jared, who is also a young earth creationist.
I would like to say the discussion was interesting, but unfortunately, it was mostly a "loudest person has the floor" type situation, in this case being the prof and they other fellow (I'm not really sure what he does). The intellectual jousting that peppered the "discussion" was irritating because people refused to be consistent with what they were saying. I didn't get so far as proposing any idea all night, simply because I kept asking people to clarify what they were saying. I might post more on this later, I'm at the Holleman's house right now missing out on some discussion of sorts
posted by tmm at
7:24 PM
6 Comments:
This is a GREAT post, and it really made me smile.
I not really in favor of Ben Stein's position, but the response shows how insecure the scientists are.
"The scientist, however, is calm, reasoning, intellectual, and able to approach questions in an "objective" manner. However, in this particular instance the biology teacher could hardly keep a level voice, and the other fellow was making dangerously violent motions with his arms the whole night."
I can understand where they are coming from. Scientists are human just like everyone else. When confronted with the level of ignorance, deception, delusion and unreason associated with the people who believe the crap in the movie Expelled, exasperation is likely to ensue even among the most calm of us.
How do you calmly discuss these important issues with people who cannot make a reasoned argument and base their beliefs on what they were brainwashed to believe instead of evidence?
Scientists are (or should be) just as zealous about the truth as fundamentalists are about their religion. If an idea isn't worth defending, it isn't worth having.
A reputable microbiologist once told me that if you are a Christian pursuing a scientific career you must wear your vest pretty tight to your chest. I think he meant that it’s easy to be snagged and left stripped naked by peers who don’t like your view. I agree that sometimes it is the way people conduct themselves during a debate that may leave more of a lasting impression than actually winning it. Christians know true grace and we should act as such. Those that know no grace will also act accordingly.
Tim,
This is hysterical. You have a random person dropping in on your blog to straighten you out.
I cannot think of a more appropriate highlight to your original post.
However, I would not blame you, if you deleted his post. It is akin to junk email, random sales phone calls, and spam.
If I dog leave you a present on the front lawn, it is often best to throw it in the trash can.
Uncle T
Hmm I didn't know this post would generate so much interest, thanks for the comments guys. Jacob, I think you are right about what you said, regarding the lasting impression.
A lot of times, when people get really angry about something, it is because, (as uncle Ted said,) they are insecure about something. This isn't always the case, a parent would get extremely angry if he/she found a mormon missionary cornering their child and confusing them about the faith. Or, if the second example is an insecurity, I lump it in a different catagory. But just from the vehement reaction generated by intelligent design, it seems indicitive of some measure of insecurity in the scientific community.
Also, uncle Ted, I'm really curious what you believe, because you really work towards internal consistency, but also reconciling your beliefs with scientific theories.
Tim,
You'd need to start here http://tinyurl.com/4y48ql and read the three part series.
Here is my basic tenets:
1. The Bible is wholly true
2. The general scientific community has a valid tool in both carbon dating and electron spin dating.
3. The idea of an old earth and home erectus without a soul is not a big deal.
Uncle T
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